In this episode, Glen Smith and Steven Hogarth discusses the rampant problem of fake Indigenous art flooding the market. He reveals how his own designs have been copied and used commercially without his permission, highlighting the broader impact on Indigenous communities and culture. Stephen talks about his efforts to combat this issue, working with politicians and legal experts to protect authentic Indigenous art.
Tune in as we explore how you can help support genuine Indigenous artists. Learn how to identify authentic pieces, the importance of asking questions, and the role of local art galleries in promoting true Indigenous talent. Join us for a compelling discussion on preserving the integrity of Indigenous art and culture.
00:00
Here we go, it’s a Tuesday morning and you’re right here on the Burekky Club online and also on the Free West Bremer Radio app where we are keeping it local and it’s time to get our arts into gear! Hello Brad! I’m back mate, I’m back. I know, you’re back. We’ve had a very exciting weekend out at Lake Mugger with an artist’s treat with Arts Connect. Oh I saw something about that. It was really good, it was awesome weekend. I’m glad. But we’re back in reality now, back at work, Tuesday morning, who cares, Monday’s gone.
00:29
But mate, I’ve got a very important guest with us this week. Ah yes, no more funny business. No funny business, no. And we’ve got Stephen Hoog- Hoog-Aaah! I knew it was going to get wrong. How hard is this? I don’t know, it’s Tuesday, my brain’s not working yet. But Hoog-Aaah. Hoog-Aaah. Anyway.
00:51
I told you it would be a brisk scream, it’s not for the right reasons. I forgive you, it’s okay. But Stephen, now you’re an Indigenous artist. Yes. Which I have actually met you at one of our exhibitions a few years back. Yes. And you had some incredible artwork and got talking and then we found out you’re sort of related in a funny way to Adele, who we’ve had on the show numerous times. But you’ve got something very special to talk about in regards to Indigenous art and…
01:18
not so nice things happening in regards to that. So tell us about yourself, how long you’ve been painting, and then tell us about what inspired you to get onto this other, look looking after indigenous artists’ rights. Yeah, so yeah, I’m a descendant from the Gamilaro Nation. So I’m related to Saunders and Pearsons. Okay. Yes, I’ve been doing it for 25 years.
01:42
in the arts industry, doing all kinds of different things. Like I’ve done G20 Summit, I’ve done jerseys for Brisbane Lions, Queensland Reds. I’ve had my artwork on race cars. I’ve done a lot. You’ve done a lot. I actually have seen the photos of the race cars that you’ve printed, that you had your work on. Yes, perhaps, yeah. But coming from that, someone actually copied your work from that, didn’t they? Yes, well, myself and a few other artists are one of the most copied artists in Australia.
02:10
And that’s like through Arts Law Australia. Yeah. They’ve done the study on myself, like case studies to teach copyright lawyers. So yeah, I’ve found my stuff on V8 supercar helmets.
02:25
the trophy for the Darwin round a couple years ago. My artwork was on that. My artwork’s been on, I think it was Fiji rugby team, I think. So don’t quote me on that one, but I might start on so many years everything. Don’t sue us if that’s wrong, okay? Yes. But how?
02:46
What do you feel when you actually see your work as being copied and you’ve got no sort of recognition for it, you’ve got no payment for it? Like, you’d have to annoy her a tad, wouldn’t it? It’s devastating. Yeah, I hope it would be. Because Aboriginal art’s cultural. Yes. So everything I put into it, it’s from me and from my culture, my history, you know, my family’s history, thousands of years. What I’ve learnt and it’s personal. And then when someone just takes it and then just does whatever they want for it, it’s
03:16
And a lot of these places are commercial places too, aren’t they? They’re not just the ordinary old run of the mill person just copying your work for hanging on their fridge. Some of them are, yes. But some of them are just other artists. Other artists. There’s like other Aboriginal artists do it. There’s souvenir companies that do it. There’s overseas companies that do it. So yes, there’s all kinds of people that do it. And so you have actually been investing a lot of your time now in trying to stop this, you know.
03:45
Yes. Talking with politicians and lawyers and whatever. Government, yes. Government people to try and put a stop to this. Have you had much success? I know this is a pretty icky question, but have you had much success or response to the understand how important it is to your culture? Well there’s, it’s hard to say because they’re trying but they’re not trying. It’s the government. So they always go, yes, let’s do all this, make a big fuss about it. Then they forget about it. People forget about it.
04:12
But what I’m trying to do with some other people is to stop the importation of fake aboriginal art into Australia Yep. Yep, because if you’re doing that you’re taking away the jobs from indigenous people. Yeah
04:25
money going out of Australia as well. It’s hurting everybody when this happens. And it’s worth like, I think it was $2.3 billion or something. And that’s the industry that’s… That’s the industry as a whole. Well as I was telling you earlier, I bought Aboriginal, Indigenous artwork thinking, oh you know, and then when I’ve actually researched it, this artist doesn’t even exist, you know. And that, well, hurts me, because I’ve forked out money for something I don’t even want to hang on the wall anymore.
04:55
Aboriginal art by an authentic artist and then you find out it’s not. It has you. It does. It’s hurting everybody. Yeah, exactly. Tourists come over from different places. They come over, want to buy a souvenir that’s supposed to be Australian painted by authentic Aboriginal artists and it’s made in Indonesia. Hand-painted Indonesia coming over. And then they whack a label on it saying that it’s someone else, like an Aboriginal person. And royalties are paid. And this should be stopped. It should be stopped. It shouldn’t even be questionable.
05:24
any way, shape or form it should be stopped because it’s hurting Australia, it’s hurting our indigenous culture, it’s hurting the people who are buying it. It’s hurting the industry, the souvenir industry, all those tourists come over expecting to get that sort of stuff and it’s not real. Like it’s not as bad as it used to be. But, you know, you can go into different souvenir places in the city, airports, the terminal, the cruise terminal. And they’ve got boomerangs in there that’s hand painted in Indonesia. Yeah.
05:52
shipped over here and they whack a label on it with an Aboriginal person on it saying this is his artwork. Like how is that possible? And how we…
05:59
And this is a sad thing, is people are buying it thinking they’re doing the right thing. But so I’ve always said to people probably, and I don’t want to put other businesses out of work, but maybe stay away from the souvenir shops that aren’t run by actual Indigenous people because the chances are that work is not going to be original. In some cases, yes, because I’m in the souvenir industry. I paint boom rings for the airports. Oh, okay. I see. This is where it’s so hard.
06:29
spaces and people that own those souvenir shops that need that education. Yep, good. So do you think they’re actually generally buying them thinking they’re real? It comes up to the sales people as well selling those products. If they’re good salesmen they’ll sell them as authentic when they’re not. So what we’ve got to do is get the government involved.
06:50
and put a stop to it. It’s a pretty simple solution. You just stop the importation of hand-painted Aboriginal-style artwork and it stops everything. We’re not saying don’t stop hardwood coming into Australia or anything like that. It’s just hand-painted Aboriginal-style stuff. That will stop a lot of the stuff in the souvenir industry. Because she was saying that, like, can I use these as an example? These are your designs and unfortunately it’s cheaper to get them made overseas.
07:20
Oh, it’s made in China. Sorry Glenn, if you can just phrase them up a little bit more so we can see it. There we go! Well it’s about time you come in Brad, any time. No, you guys were just having a lovely chat, I’m all about it. These are awesome braces I think. Linyards. But like we had the discussion before, when I said that they’re made in China, but the artwork is mine. It’s yours. And I get them sourced and I get them made. I’d love to get them made in Australia, but the cost is way too much and people won’t pay that much.
07:48
because people doing it hard. Well it is and it is very hard. I mean people are cutting back on buying.
07:54
But I do work with souvenir companies who do get stuff made in China with my artwork on it. And I do get paid for all these. And it’s generally not hand, like there’ll be more your designs. It’s more my designs, yes. Rather than actual hand painted vulgarans and things like that. That’s not coming up. So these items are still quite good to buy. Yeah, they’re quality manufactured properly. Yep. And I try and use sustainable factories. But if I was buying this, how would I know, would they like have your designer name and everything on them? Yes, they’ll have a photo of me, all my information. And everything.
08:24
Well look, we’re gonna, don’t go away, because we’re gonna keep going. We’re getting a wrap up here, but we’re coming back for round two, because this is actually very interesting. All right. Of course it is, it’s on our radio show. We only have the interesting stuff here. They only bring the interesting people in. And then Glenn’s just here anyway. And then I’ll just hear. Getting your arts into gear, it’s a Tuesday morning, back soon.
00:00
Back with part two, getting your arts into gear, Tuesday morning with Goliath Smith. Hello Brad. Hello. This is part two now, we’ve been talking this- It is part two. Yeah. We’ve been talking- You get two for the price of one. Can I have a go now? No. Jeez, I tell ya. Now, Steve, we were talking about, you know, instances of where you’ve seen fake Indigenous work being used.
00:23
in companies or businesses or whatever. Now you’ve got an example, we’re not gonna name names, but you’ve got an example, you’ve seen it just recently. Yeah, just recently I was going through social media and I saw a post for indigenous workshops and indigenous business, like stuff like that. And the artwork that was on there was fake. Oh, well. It was it, Adobe stock image. Someone overseas had just copied an Australian. And they’re promoting an indigenous workshop? Yes.
00:52
Yes. Is that for Indigenous people? I think it was for Indigenous people, yes. So I just kindly messaged them and said, hey, you know, maybe this is fake art. Yeah. Use another image. Yes. So even something like that, that actually has, you know, a good, you know, good reason. They’ve got a good intentions, but someone just dropped the ball along the line somewhere. Yeah. And you just let them know you don’t use them or anything. They change it. Yeah, they change it straight away. They put.
01:20
Soon as they like seeing my message, they pulled it down straight away, changed it, got rid of it and fixed it. And then send me a message saying, sorry about that. Well, also, you know, like, it could have got worse. It could have been a real hassle for them. But you see it all the time. Like there’s websites like AliExpress, Wish, Tmoo, all them, they all sell fake stuff. And you see some promotional companies selling fake stuff. And apparently they’re sponsored by the government, which I’m not.
01:48
Okay, government, get your act together here. You know, like this is serious stuff we’re talking about. And as I said, it affects everyone from indigenous communities to indigenous culture, to the people buying it, to the businesses buying it. So it’s not just a small, as you said, it’s what, $2.3 billion industry. Yeah, something like that. Yeah, and it’s- Don’t quote me on that. I won’t quote you, but Steve said. But like it’s important stuff and we need to get on top of this. I wanna know, how can we help?
02:18
Like how can the listener, or if you’re on social media, how can you help? The best thing to do is just ask questions. Like if people aren’t going to answer those questions, then they’ve got something to hide. Any Indigenous person who loves their culture will tell you everything about it. So you just need to ask those questions. And as we know, there’s the most incredible Indigenous…
02:43
amount of artists within Ipswich, you know, from our exhibition we had over 18 artists of that and from that I’ve learnt there’s quite a large amount out there. And you don’t have to travel far to get incredible original Indigenous artists. They said just seek advice and ask questions and the art gallery should have a list of artists. I gave it to them.
03:05
Yeah, well they can come and see you and talk to you about it. Yeah, come talk to me, yeah, I’ll put you in the right track. You can Google their name. You can Google their name, check out Facebook, social media, if they’ve got a following, they’ll be there. They’ll be there. But if you want to buy locally, there’s an amazing amount of indigenous, incredible indigenous artists locally. You don’t have to go far. You don’t have to go as far as Sydney. There are amazing artists out there. They’re incredible, you know. And I’m lucky enough to meet a few like Steve, you know, so it’s really good.
03:34
And yeah, so that’s what we can do as at our grassroots level. And if we do something that we’re not sure about, get under Steve. Well you can even contact your local arts community and indigenous community. Definitely, yeah. What we might do, Clem, is that list of artists that you’ve given to the arts gallery, let’s throw it up on our website. Let’s throw it up, so. Let’s do that. Yeah, and I’ll get Steve to help me with that too, because she must know a lot of.
04:04
artists that I don’t know, so that’d be great. So watch this space. Watch this space. We’ll get that up in a couple of weeks. Yeah, look mate, I’m gonna thank you so much for coming in. I know how important this is to you and how important it is to me as well. And yeah, all the best with future endeavors and let’s hope the government starts listening. Not just listening, but actually acting. Yeah, it’s more, they listen, but they don’t act. We need you to act, guys. Come on. Otherwise, I’ll…
04:31
petition nude out front of your office if you don’t do something. Let’s say, yeah, that’ll make a move. Let’s get them. Oh, so many lines. Keep it clean, man. Keep it clean. This is a family shot. Oh, yeah. Okay. Thank you, everyone. Thank you, Glenn. We have just got our arts and gear for another week. We’ll be back with more in a moment.
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